I don't see the logic of applying logicat all. If something exists fine if it doesn't okay as well. I'll decide how to interpret it and it may militate against accepted scientific rationale simply because I think that way. If something is believed in it exists for the person in the shape it is in his brain until physical contact or other stimuli change it. And there's no reason the person will change it. We all live in our personal universes and all talk of an absolute uincerse is bullshit it's not important as I'll interpret it and therefore create my own universe. I'll choose whether to accept if the sun goes around the earth or the other way and nobody can force it on me. Similarly I have a choice to choose my own god and so does everyone else. It's part of their personal universe. So why this argument about knowing or not knowing? You know what you believe and for you what you believe is what exists.

 

Sometimes I believe, and sometimes I don't. My beliefs are based primarily what I can see and experience with my senses. I doubt frequently, and I lament at the way the world is. But I shouldn't because it's not like I can do anything about it. Some days I praise God for being so awesome in general, and in within that same day something might happen and I immediately think, God's a dick for letting bad things happen. I'm very childish.
My religious experience is limited to Christianity, and while I question the spiritual side, I do think the Bible is a good guide for learning morals. You know, things like don't murder people, don't lie, don't judge people, don't throw your children into a furnace as a sacrifice to Moloch, help someone when they need help.

 

He said 'in my eyes'.

 

For that statement, yes, but then he went on to make a whole bunch of absolute statements that were not qualified by the "in my eyes".

If that's not the case then I retract my statement but I'm pretty sure it is.

 

As regards whether or not there is an after-life, there are a couple of books written by John G. Fuller which deal with this subject.

The Ghost of Flight 401: Which explores reported sightings by Eastern Air Lines employees of dead crew members Capt. Bob Loft and Second Officer Don Repo.
John Fuller also writes that he and a NorthWest flight attendent, named Elizabeth, also encountered the spirit of Don repo through their experiments with an Ouija board. Where certain personal information was apparently recieved and confirmed by Don Repo's wife, including that her maiden name was Norko.

*not_secure_link*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_of_Flight_401

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Over the following months and years, employees of Eastern Air Lines began reporting sightings of the dead crew members, captain Robert Loft and second officer (flight engineer) Donald Repo, sitting on board other L-1011 (N318EA) flights. The story was that parts of Flight 401 were salvaged after the crash investigation and refitted into other L-1011s. The reported hauntings were only seen on the planes that used the spare parts. (Even though some parts were salvaged and re-used to maintain other airplanes in Eastern's fleet, the accident resulted in the total hull loss of N310EA and it was written off.) Sightings of the "spirits" of Don Repo and Bob Loft spread throughout Eastern Air Lines to the point where Eastern's management warned employees that they could face dismissal if caught spreading ghost stories. While Eastern Airlines publicly denied some of their planes were haunted, they reportedly removed all the salvaged parts from their L-1011 fleet. Over time, the reporting of ghost sightings stopped. An original floor board from Flight 401 remains in the archives at History Miami in South Florida
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The Airmen Who Would Not Die: Explores the aftermath surrounding the crash of the R101, by inter-weaving the story of Capt. W.G.R. Hinchcliffe and Elsie Mackay. This focuses on their ill-fated attempt to fly from England to the U.S. non-stop and against prevailing winds.

There are some notable names listed in this book that have experienced some sort of spiritual contact with either Capt. Hinchcliffe or other highly regarded people connected with the R101.
Names as: Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sir Sefton Brancker, Flt. Lt. H.C. Irwin, Sq. Ldr. E.L. Johnston, Nevil Shute and Major Oliver G. Villiers.

 

Ah well... Ask Jim Carrey. :excited:

*not_secure_link*images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/3000000/Bruce-Almighty-bruce-almighty-3045254-824-588.jpg

 

Ghosts, another myth, there is no proof they exist, as of yet.
Someone calculated a few years back that the number of people that had died on this planet was the same as the number then lived on it, the figure he came up with was 6 billion, don't ask me the formula he used because I don't know it.
That figure of 6 billion gave each of us in theory our own personal ghost to be haunted by, so where is mine as I have never seen one.
And what of all the other lives lost, is the local abattoir full of ghostly cows, sheep and pigs, if so it will be pretty crowded, and what of those prehistoric creatures the reall big ones are they wandering around having fun going "woooooo"!

 

I guess my answers aren't interesting enough to warrant a response...

*sobs in corner*

 

Well, to place value in something or to search for truth based on what you sense and experience is a bit misguided. Your senses can be extremely misleading. Also, they can be challenged at a fundamental level. Renes Descartes initially posed the question as to whether everything we experience as sentinent beings is not in reality a projection or some other thing that differs from what we think it to be.

 

I believe, the fact that I believe does not require others to believe. I need no proof even though the fact that others require proof exists.
I have Faith, you can have Faith without religion but you cannot have religion without Faith.
My Life's decisions are mine to make and are not up to GOD and for them I must make amends. I am judged but try not to be judgemental and fail.
Will I be rewarded or punished I know not, but I have Faith.

 

I know what you're getting at, but I think try to avoid that mistake by questioning everything. And that's the major thing that blocks or slows my progress in regards to growth, spiritual or otherwise. I have to consider each and every option, learn everything I can about each option, then when I have enough information, I inevitably stall at making a choice because... I just can't make a decision. And all that is part of having Asperger's syndrome. I think I first desired to be baptized when I was around 13, and I'm 24 and still haven't gone and done it because it's nerve wracking for me to be around people.
We just got our house painted, and it was a nightmare for me to choose a color for my room. I ended up with an ocean blue, but by god was it difficult to choose one color out of something like 500 or 800 different colors.

Bah, look at me, derailing this thread.

 

I think you hit the nail on the head. Everyone wants PROOF that there is or isn't a God, but proof is only good if you are able to perceive. Our whole experience of reality is based on information brought in from our different sensory systems. I can't see, taste, smell, hear, or touch electricity. I can sense effects of electricity (like static electricity, lightning), but I can't perceive electricity based on just my senses. I believe that God exists outside of our senses. There's no way to prove or disprove His existence. You have to have FAITH. That's the whole point

I believe in a loving and personal God. We talk all the time (though, I can always talk to Him more). I believe that He always answers you, but it's not always the answer you want.

I do struggle with the Bible a lot. I believe that the Bible is man's best interpretation of God's words. Ultimately, though, how mortal perfectly translate a message given to them from a deity? I think the Bible is super awesome, but I don't know if I believe that all of it was exactly what God intended to say.

I believe that I can pick and choose what I want to believe and that you can, too.

 

There are only two possibilities: 1) All religions are wrong 2) All religions are wrong except one. #2 is the reason for much of the strife in the world and in history. Having been raised in a particular faith, you want to justify that belief by eliminating all others - so religious types start wars, torture, kill, out breed, and in every possible way try to prove their pathway is the correct one by eliminating the other guy.

 

in my life some times I thought yes theres a god....now after all the crap in life NO there is NO god.....or if there is he flat out hates me......

 

That pretty well sums it up. I know what I believe and I even know why. But asking me to quantify that would be impossible.

 

I stopped at the word atheist.

 

I find an all powerful being creating the universe and everything hard to believe as it is, but the bible....have you ever read that thing....would be better if it had dragons

 

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if you were god AZ female clothing would not exist

 

I concur. I was raised pentacostal and went to church 4 or 5 times a week as a child. I became shamefully agnostic. Started looking for evidence and became profoundly iterested in astronomy and astrophysics. Finally found the courage (after having my dog tags stamped as christian to spare my grandmothers grief apon my death in Iraq) to confess my atheism. My family have mourned the loss of my soul since, but not the loss of me thankfully. I cannot live a lie.